Forged irons should be checked every year or 2 anyway for loft/lie. Where Can You Get Your Lie Angle Adjusted, Should You Use Heavier Shafts in Wedges? Some get more spin, some less. 10.5 set at small - More than likely you will hit the ball a bit farther as well, potentially close to 1/2 a club. I have plenty of X-flex swing speed and don't need the high launch (that just kills me in headwinds), but like the forgiveness on mishits. The incredible story behind Arnold Palmers $275,000 irons from the 1960s, OLD vs. NEW: TaylorMade Tour Preferred MC 2011 irons vs. My modern irons (Full launch monitor numbers), Legendary club designer Larry Bobka speaks on his new $599 blade irons, What are these?! Should I see any difference in 1 degree stronger irons? If experience still trumps explanations, simulations and printouts, print out some ebay listings there are lots of older sets with barely used 3 irons. I'm fascinated by your basis for changing the lofts? I realize this can be affected by angle of attack, swing speed, iron/shaft design, and ball design. Yes, it is possible to bend the irons 1-2 degrees stronger, but by doing so you would be reducing the effective bounce on the clubs. Add loft for distance?????? TM M2 8.5* Graphite Design Tour AD GP 6X+ All rights reserved. St Louis, MO. So if you are steep or tend to take a pretty good divot, you may not want to bend them more than a degree. Even if you want to say a weakened 4 iron is longer in length than a 5 iron of the same loft and therefore goes farther, your gaps in your set will still be equally proportionate. Fitters have to find some way to raise their ball flight, because those golfers lack the speed necessary to get the best results from many modern iron heads. Sure, the top few are valid members of the PGA Tour, all with their legitimate claims in this lowly class, but we then have the likes of Chad Campbell (unranked after not being seen for almost three years) and Frank Lickliter (now outside the world top 3000) bringing up a rear lacks depth. Often, golfers think they need to make more birdies in order to score better or become a better golfer, when in reality it is minimizing the bad shots and bad holes that can have more impact. NOW AVAILABLE: GolfWRX G/Fore Hats and Holderness & Bourne Polos! Great article. Here are the different ways fitters change the lie angle of a club: A club can either be bent to an upright position (toe higher than heel) or flat (toe lower than heel) usually in increments of 1 or 2 degrees. Thanks! Will that change the playability of the irons dramatically? How Much Does 1 Degree of Loft Affect Distance? They know how much torque to put on the hozzel. These are topics that have been kicked around and that are important in todays market, so articles will most likely be touching on them in the future. If the club has an abundance of bounce and/or a rounded leading edge, reducing bounce by 2* might not matter. Even the most skilled repair professionals can occasionally break a club. Ping G30 irons w/Recoil 95 What do you mean about not seeing any changes in your irons? Titleist Vokey 47* Oban CT 125, 51*, 55*, and 59* Shimada Tour Wedge Black More is not always better, but I would expect nothing less from a fitter at Carls Golfland. This will change the trajectory of the ball, and can potentially cause misdirected shots. Production Manager Wesley Turner: Five Years in the Bag. But if it'll mess up the performance or whatnot, I'm not messing with it. Does that create the maximum distance for that ball speed? 5 Testers Needed! Custom Edel E-3 Putter, More than likely you will hit the ball a bit farther as well, potentially close to 1/2 a club. I am constantly amazed at how many golfers are trying to play the game with a fundamentally unsound hold of the club. Brilliant information ! When you get 2* gaps on the long end there is almost no difference between clubs. Ping Redwood Anser- the "real deal!". A wind-affected island track that offers rewards for aggression. I play high bounce Ping G30's and have bent some of the clubs in that set that strong. Callaway Epic - HZRDUS BlackCobra F9 3 Wood The ball came out much higher and shorter, just like you would expect from a 63*. Step 3. Just curious but, can I bend a set of titleist cb718 to the titleist ap2 718 specs? Now I learned to shape the flight high and low at any given moment. But Im not sure whats being accomplished with weakening irons. All rights reserved. Custom Specs - Mizuno Golf USA I did the math on these numbers years ago when I had an early release and wondering why I could not hit the irons very far. United States. While golf club manufacturers certainly try to make a consistent product, there are often inconsistencies in the lofts and lies of the clubs and they may not be progressively consistent from one club to another. Product Instructions & Manuals Please contact Patrick Gallagher at 800-437-1314 or email patrick@mitchellgolf.com. More photos from the event here. In the five starts mentioned above, the St. Simons resident has some impressive first round finishes. Maybe manufacturers will take note (I doubt it, but keep trying. It will also increase the offset of the club, not a huge amount, but at two degrees, it is noticeable to me. We also see these players having gapping issues with a mid iron, not just 4 and 5 like your example, so adding loft achieves better gapping as well. Putter: Snake Eyes Viper Tour Sv1, 34" -or- Cleveland Huntington Beach #1, 34.5" -or- Golden Ram TW Custom, 34" -or- Rife Bimini, 34" But what I dont understand is why you would need to weaken the loft of irons 2-3* when the gap between irons is 3-4*. The new grooves should also be mentioned as allowing the ball to slide up the face a little more compared to the older grooves. Balls: Chrome Soft, Kirkland Signature 3pc, Srixon Q Star Tour, Grip preference: various GripMaster leather options. The point is today, regardless of your skill level, if you work on making your grip and your set up closer to the proven fundamentals of the best players in the game, your path to better golf becomes infinitely easier. If the customer cant get the 4 iron in the air, pull that too and give them a hybrid that will get in the air. Paste as plain text instead, Training Aids, GPS Devices, Apps, Accessories & More. This is especially true of clubs made with long hosels. When I was fitted for my 714 AP-2's it was the Titleist fitter who suggested we go 1 degree strong, but it take very little divot. Ball- Bridgestone Tour B X, In the grand scheme of things, I would say zero effect. You won't notice it. In a typical golf set, loft increases as shaft length decreases. On the opposite and gapping from AW to 9i is very wide about 16 yards about between clubs. This will give you a low-to-mid-range straight shot. The ball came out much higher and shorter, just like you would expect from a 63*. ENTER NOW! It can be re-bent without any adverse effect on it. Mr Divots, good point on the higher swing speeds, but like anything else we still see higher speed guys still launch the ball too low, it just is not as common as the low swing speed player. On 7/12/2018 at 3:15 PM, PoeKingShankspeare said: Please put and questions or comments here, Please put any questions or comments here, Please put any questions of comments here, w/ SuperStroke 2.MidSlim (50 gr. Assuming you are not altering the trajectory due to the conditions. . All bending machines are not accurate in their readings. If you are taking big divots with a 2 iron you have some serious problems with your swing. Craig, Bending TM P790 irons up to 2 degrees weaker. Is it safe? Good idea? Needless to say, some people need more bounce than others; pickers don't need much bounce but diggers do. My old callway x forged dug more than my bent mp-4's. I have to explain that the design allows the iron to have a stronger loft. Driver: Cobra Amp Cell Pro (8.5 degrees) Shaft: Aldila RIP Phenom 3-wood: Titleist 906F4 (13.5 degrees) Shaft: Aldila NV 7-wood: Michael Hopper whats in the bag accurate as of the WM Phoenix Open. I bent them 4 degrees strong to keep my flight down as I hit moon balls with my X700 shafts hardstepped X3 ", Ping G400 Testing G410. St Louis, MO. I have been reading that the more offset you add it will end up more of a hook shot. some strong lofts there, i thought you had blade type irons so, which have weaker lofts? It is a combination of those factors to get consistent results. GolfWRX_Spotted posted a topic in Tour and Pre-Release Equipment, Tuesday at 04:47 PM, GolfWRX_Spotted posted a topic in Tour and Pre-Release Equipment, February 20, GolfWRX_Spotted posted a topic in Tour and Pre-Release Equipment, February 13, GolfWRX_Spotted posted a topic in Tour and Pre-Release Equipment, February 6, GolfWRX_Spotted posted a topic in Tour and Pre-Release Equipment, January 31, By The fact remains that only stronger, faster swings can support lower lofts. The so-called "standard" lie angles are 9 iron at 64* with a spacing of 1 deg between clubs. Humans think theyre logical but when it comes down to it (when the wallet hits the counter), they are controlled by feelings, who they wish they could play like and what company has qualities that match their identity. ***GIVEAWAY*** Cleveland CBX ZipCore Wedge! Stronger iron lofts don't always create more distance - GolfWRX I will also need to bend my irons 2 degrees flat according to a lie board. Or Ping Glide Stealth, 54,58 SS. MyGolfSpy Forum Virtual Golf Tournaments, Forum Featured:Community Map & Course Reviews, By Even with the knowledge of club bending and its importance on your play, there are a lot of misconceptions about what can and cant be done with a clubs loft and lie. About time someone who knows what theyre talking about said what the the real deal is with loft and modern clubs. The refit yielded a super driving iron. Todays golf ball travels farther than ever before and I dont see any need to jack up the short iron lofts. Callaway MD 3 52 bent to 54 [size=4]KBS 610 S+[/size] Bottom line: bending 2* strong may or may not cause issues. You can post now and register later. That would depend on what GI head design you have and to be quite honest the only way to be sure would be to test these irons on a golf radar. Might actually help on hard ground. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. But regardless of the type of change you are trying to make, you also have to be willing to commit to it and suffer the learning period oftentimes you have to get worse (for a while) to get better (permanently). Adams A12 19 - Fuji HB 80X, PXG 0311X 4 - HZRDUS Red 105 X If the launch conditions work, what matter the number on the club? After the death of his mother, Endycott understandably struggled through the late teens, understandably saying that, At the time, golf didnt really matter to me.. Callaway 2018 MB irons DO NOT SEND PMs WITH CLUB TECH QUESTIONS - USE THE PUBLIC FORUM. Because of my forward foot was so much above my trail foot, my hands were a good 6" behind the ball, when compared to a level lie. An ideal Launch Angle and Spin Rate for a Ball Speed with a 6 iron of 115 MPH would be right about 15-16* and 6000 RPMs respectively. But if your best place for improvement is in your approach shots or play with the long clubs, you simply must work on your fundamentals of the golf swing. Are you above or below average for some or all of these statistics? Would they still be ideal? Club design of a particular club can be a factor also. One other thing is that some clubs are designed from the factory strong lofted to begin with Taylor Made GI irons are a good example of this. You can post now and register later. What affect would bending an iron 2 degrees stronger have? All data in this article is gathered from Shot Scopes database of over 140,000 golfers and in excess of 250 million shots recorded using performance tracking products such as the unique PRO LX+ laser rangefinder. Routinely, I notice longer than standard 85g shafts with these sets. The 4 iron will have a negative bounce if you bend them 2 degrees. Using like say an Older Macgregor blade butter knife with a thin sharp leading edge on the sole if you deloft more than 1 degree or so you have a chance of digging to China. If your intent is to modify them by making them one degree strong, you will be changing the play of the iron, and also the physical appearance possible (could be debatable if the human eye can tell one degree, I'm not sure since I have never had to do this to any of my sets.). I'm not so much of a digger with long irons, and I thought about getting my rogue 5i bent a degree stronger and not carry a 4. Using a club bending machine to change the angle on a golf club is among the fastest ways to improve a players ball flight. Keep the loft the same and take an extra club for the shot. Driver: Charles Kelley whats in the bag accurate as of the Pebble Beach Pro-Am. Good luck! I even fitted a customer with a new SLDR and put him in a 12 degree head with a TP shaft. Mizuno MP59 4i-6I w/ PX 6.5, Wedges- Scratch 8620 Driver/Slider set. All Rights Reserved. What I was hoping from this article was proof for that a current 46* MB/CB PW doesnt go any further than the 47/48* PWs of the past. This puts a 5 iron at 60* and that is way too flat for most people. Golfers should liken their iron fittings to that of a driver. We dive into a subject we get A LOT of questions about, bending your clubs properly. if we move from a "high launch" to a Low launch shaft, who reduce loft by 2* we also lost 2* bounce. On a driver? I know some pros naturally hit it higher, and some lower. A standard golf shop, or fitting center will be able to do this. Whether its changing the lie to improve accuracy or changing loft to make sure that the players clubs are progressively consistent, angle bending is a major factor in club performance. Plus, those superlight steel shafts in the 85-90 gram range feel like a softer flex than what is listed, probably due to the thinner steel in the shaft. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Why knowing the different variations in epoxy matter Here How to create excitement before they take the first What you can expect with a Mitchell Golf Angle Mitchell Golf Equipment Company AP2 irons are forged and can be bent with no problem, BUT I would recommend taking them to someone who does this for a living. After a quick gapping review we bent 2 clubs and tried those out which gave a good base to work from. Titleist does recommend no more than +/- 2 degrees from factory and you should be ok. Any more and there is a risk of the stress cracks in the hosel area (primarily cosmetic). 1 for 1, loft for bounce. On GI long irons vs players irons have different width soles, are the effects of bounce differ between the two if the loft is a degree stronger? I've never had a sand wedge bent. 2 degrees upright, what does this say about my swing etc The bounce on the 3-iron is already 0 degrees, so will bending the club for a stronger loft make the bounce go negative? Bending 716MB irons 1 or 2 degrees strong - Club Fitting - Team Titleist Titleist 818 H1 19 HybridMiura CB-57 4-PW If you're a true picker, wont make you a digger. By NYonce. Worked very well IMO in terms of reducing spin You will need to check your distances with these gapped lofts. Sure. Your 4i and 5i will tend to get more rollout than the higher # irons, hence the 3* loft gaps. If the added ball speed of modern irons is not enough to achieve an ideal landing angle, I have to add loft. I am not sure exactly what you are asking with the final 2 questions, are you asking should the 5 and 7 iron have the same launch conditions as the 6 iron, or would there be any issues if your 5 iron or the 7 iron launched like the ideal conditions for the 6 iron? You can be assured there is not a single successful player in the professional ranks who does not have a fundamentally sound grip on the club. And visa versa, if the original bounce is low and/or the club has a sharp leading edge, the reduction in bounce may have a significant impact on playability. You cannot paste images directly. If the hosel design and manufacturing processes allow it, the lie of an iron can be bent 3-4 degrees or more with no compromise to the integrity of the head. Bending Lofts Strong | Golf Monthly The bounce angle will also change when making the clubs stronger or weaker. What's In The Bag (Summary as of October 2021, post-MAX changeover), Driver: Tour Edge EXS10.5, set 9.5;weights neutral ||FWs:CallaRogue4W + 7W, Hybrid: Calla Big Bertha OS4H at 22 ||Irons:Calla Mavrik MAX 5i-PW, Wedges*: Calla MD3:48MD4: 54, 58||Putter:Slotline Inertial SL-583F w/ SuperStroke 2.MidSlim (50 gr. Older irons can be bent to achieve better gaping and additional distance, but the distance increases will be very small. question on bending a forged iron 2 degrees strong By ssfranny, January 22, 2019 in WRX Club Techs Reply to this topic Start new topic ssfranny Lefty Boomers 3.5k Feedback 20 0 0 Total Rating 100% Posted January 22, 2019 Have a set of basically new MP 53s I want to bend them 2 degrees strong to make them play more a modern loft. So going 2 strong will remove 2 degrees of bounce. The sole on that thing is tiny compared to any driving iron and I still had no trouble hitting it off the deck. It is common for the golfers I fit to hit todays irons, which average about 2 degrees less loft per club, as high as their current set (if not higher). The bounce will be irrelevant to begin with in that case anyway. In between, the Aussie came home fast to be 18th in Cam Smiths Australian PGA, and although he missed the cut at his home Open, sat in the top-10 after an opening 65. Great article! Thats why I custom order iron sets with lofts that are 1-to-2 degrees weaker than standard about 40 percent of the time. Ball speed from the new irons is what is creating the distance. Hybrid: Cobra King Tec 2h, MMT 80 S -or- TEE CBX 17*, HZRDUS 85 6.0, 2 iron: Mizuno MP-20 HMB, Steelfiber i95 S, 39.5", Irons grab bag: 1-PW Golden Ram TW276, NV105 S; 1-PW Golden Ram TW282, RIP Tour 115 R; 3-AW Pinhawk Vertex irons, Apollo std stepped S Manage your expectations, dont expect to hit every shot close, Make smarter club choices based off the above, Be sensible: The middle of the green is a GREAT place to be, The average golfer will get up and down from a bunker, 1 out of 5 times, The average golfer manages to get up and down around 1 in 3 times, Short game shots from the fairway have the highest success rate. Thanks for everybody for your help! For most players the answer is - MORE than we normally can bend static lof, Lower launch, lower flight (generally) but you lose some bounce and add offset, Titleist TSi4 8.25* / Fujikura Ventus Black TR 7-X Changing the lie angle of a club can help golfers more consistently hit shots off of the center of the clubface. No matter what your skill level, you will not optimize your performance with outdated or ill-fitted golf clubs. Yes, it would make the clubs a little 'longer' (with a lower ball flight), but it might not be worth . Ordering & Information I know its different for each golfer depending on their individual characteristics but do you have rough numbers (for iron set) to be looking for in terms of launch angle, spin rate etc. Simply put, bending the iron 6.5 degrees strong wasn't an option. The average golfer hits 48 percent of fairways. * MD4 54/10 S-Grind replacedMD3 54/12 W-Grind. Military. Due to how DeChambeau delivers the club, his 4-iron has a stated loft of 16 degrees; the stock Ping i230 comes in at 22.5 degrees. I changed my Apex pro 19 2 degrees strong. Ping Glide wedges w/Recoil 110 Upload or insert images from URL. Your golf ball starts off towards the left of your target (right for lefties). From my research into various golfer communities, it is highly likely that if you are reading this blog post you probably are playing to somewhere between a 5 and 16 handicap. Hi all, I was wondering if bending a club 2* strong would affect the playability of said club? Loft and lie changes are more or less permanent. Titleist Response to USGA / R&A Distance Insights, Bending 716MB irons 1 or 2 degrees strong. Good question. So glad this was posted. Copyright 2022 MyGolfSpy On the short end, as the pitching wedge loft gets stronger you end up with wider gaps in the scoring clubs. High bounce irons absorb a change like this more easily. However, in reality it was now a 63* wedge so what happened. It would decrease the bounce on each club, not a good idea, as well as it would cause the ball to go farther. I will only add that I don't see what the benefit would be to strengthening loft. And why really do you need to do it besides being able to brag about hitting the ball farther? JavaScript is disabled. Think about how much this could help golfers from the rough as well. In 11 starts since gaining his place at the top level, the 26-year-old has made four cuts, including a first-time-out 12th at the Fortinet, 10th in Bermuda (led after a first round 62), 22nd at the American Express 7th after day one) and top-30 at the Plantation Course last week. Undershooter I have mine bent 2 degrees strong and cannot see any visible difference. If you have any doubt about the hand position, think of this scenario. Bettinardi Studio Stock SS28, Didn't think of that. Titleist 818 H1 19 HybridMiura CB-57 4-PW Ping G425 5 wood & hybrid TM TP EF Tour Issue 50* & 56*, 62* You might find that you ask yourself if you are better or worse than the average golfer? Bending the loft is another story. Each player is different and because of this each iron plays different for each player. Golfers can talk about shafts until they are blue in the face, and different shafts will make a difference in control, feel and sometimes launch and spin. Its ball speed not loft that is increasing distance. How Bryson DeChambeau's Ping irons came to life | Wall-to-Wall Restore formatting, Bending 2* strong will increase the clubs digging tendencies. Still many worries about bending lofts due to bounce changes, and many also thinkthat shafts can lift or lower ball flight by changing dynamic loft, but without anything happening to bounce, but that cant be prevented, bounce always follows loft no matter if loft was changed due to bending, angle of attack, or adifferent shaft, all 3 scenarios has the same changes. A lot of mixing and matching We have seen significant distance improvements with all 3 of these irons, it just needs to match up with how you launch the ball. It is a lot easier to find what lie angle you need in your golf clubs and purchase a set rather than have to individually bend each club. So, it is my contention that conditions on the course often vary much more than changing the dynamics of a club by a degree or two. It, In any case one can't really compare clubs anymore with respect to asking what someone hit. My name is Justin and I am a PGA Golf Professional. (more on this down below). Check out our video: how-to bend your clubs on a Mitchell Golf Angle Machine:Get Bending! FAQs After this long introduction, Nick keep preaching this gospel. Ping G400 Max driver w/Aldila Rogue 125 Silver How to bend your clubs | Mitchell Golf - YouTube The two things are diametrically opposed in meaning of course. December 27, 2014 in Club Making/Repair & DIY Projects. Pasted as rich text. Copyright 2023 Mitchell Golf Equipment Company. You must log in or register to reply here. Bounce follows loft in a 1:1 ratio. of distance, and more playable iron trajectories. TaylorMade Rsi TP 3-PW (1.5* strong) NS-Pro MOdus 3 tour130 X The new era of stronger lofts is all about how far to hit 7 iron vs how close to hit 7 iron and more accurate. Novak has finished 11th after the first round in Hawaii, fifth at Torrey Pines and in the top-30 at Pebble Beach and at the Honda. Or if youre playing in firm conditions, you might want more spin and a higher launch. I did this to reduce the spin rate. As long as the spin rate is acceptable, the new irons, because of their lower center of gravity, are going to produce more speed off the face (due to the lower loft and lower COG) and more distance. :-). The GI/SGI clubs are basically directed to help players with lesser abilities to hit the golf ball, usually that also means lower swing speeds. Furthermore, he was 15th at the end of the first round on debut here last year and 11th after Thursdays round at the correlative Corales in the Dominican Republic. You won't notice it. It was suggested that I would bring my launch and spin down a bit with making my irons 1-2 stronger. Among full-swing clubs, drivers have the lowest degrees of loft (some pros use drivers with as little as 7 degrees of loft; most recreational golfers use drivers lofted at 9 to 14 degrees). You don't say what club it is, but Rev said it sounds like a long iron and I agree. I truly wish customers would do their do diligence before getting fit. I'm guessing it will dig more but how much more? It is hard for some golfers to understand how irons with more loft can help them hit the ball farther, and this is understandable. Upload or insert images from URL. Lower lofts will travel a bit farther and a bit lower, higher lofts will travel a bit less and fly a bit higher. Grant is a big-hitter off the tee, his driving distance ranking being fourth at Bermuda, 16th at the RSM and third at Pebble Beach, whilst he ranked highly for both his driving and greens during his KFT campaign. Unless of course it's a long iron and you have a hard time elevating it in the first place.

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